Y: Yang Rui, Presenter of the CCTV English program Dialogue

　　Z: Zhang Hanzhi<注1>, President of China International Association for Urban and Rural Development

　　Y: The elder generation of Chinese are very familiar with the name of Qiao Guanhua. Mr. Qiao was the Chinese Foreign Minister in the 1970s as well as the first top Chinese diplomat to the United Nations after the legitimate position of China was restored.<注2> His relaxed and broad smile, particularly his personal charm, got into headlines in the Western media. Today we are very honored to have his wife Madam Zhang Hanzhi with us on the program.

　　Y: Back in 1971, China's legitimate position at the UN was restored - that was one year before the US President Richard Nixon's official visit to China. We know that your husband was appointed by the Chinese government to head<注3> the Chinese delegation to the UN, and we also know that you were one of the members on the delegation. How did you feel when you first appeared at the headquarters of the UN in New York?

　　Z: Well, I guess that's the most exciting moment in my life, as China's return to the UN is certainly a great event in Chinese diplomacy. And to be more exact, it was three months before Nixon's visit. China was admitted into the UN in November 1971 and Nixon's visit was in February 1972. That event of course had a close connection with the announcement of Nixon's visit, which was in July after Doctor Henry Kissinger's<注4> secret visit to China. I think the re-establishment of China as a UN member was beyond the expectation of many people at the time, at least it wasn't expected to happen that soon. First of all, Americans didn't really want China to return to the UN that year. They were thinking that China would probably get into the UN after their president's visit. And I have to say that even for us Chinese, we didn't realize that we could be going back to the UN that year because the United States voted against China's return to the UN and you have to admit that the US had a very strong influence at the UN.

　　Y:Did it come as a surprise that representatives from developing countries extended a very warm welcome to the Chinese delegation?Z: Well, it was a surprise and it was not. In the first place, we knew that all along that many of the developing countries welcomed China and most of the countries that supported the Resolution were developing countries. However, there were also some developing countries that were very much under the American influence at the time and they did not really feel free to vote for China's return to the UN. So what was surprising to us was that these countries actually came to vote in China's favor.<注5>

　　Y: Can you tell us why Chairman Mao appointed Mr. Qiao in his position as Foreign Minister to be the head of the Chinese delegation?

　　Z: It was a very unusual situation. As I have said, China was not expected to be admitted into the United Nations that year. And you have to remember that at that time China was isolated from the international community for twenty years because of the American policy of blocking China from the outside world. So everything was so difficult. And it was a totally unknown situation in New York as well as at the United Nations. I guess for a mission like that Chairman Mao and Premier Zhou Enlai thought they would need a diplomat who could deal with the situation. Also, I think it had something to do with Qiao's background - he did his PhD in Germany in 1930s.

　　Y: Do you think China's return to the UN also counted as a personal career success for your husband Mr. Qiao Guanhua at that time he headed the Chinese delegation?

　　Z: I think his performance at the UN, as you said, was a success in his diplomatic career. But I would not really credit China's return to<注6> the UN to Qiao Guanhua.

　　Y: Many people, I believe, must have been very impressed by his charismatic<注7> broad smile that seemed to have become his trademark in a way.

　　Z: He did make a very strong impression on everybody at the UN.

　　Y: I remember there's a Pulitzer Prize<注8> winning photo that seems to me to have best captured the charm of Mr. Qiao's smile. How do you look at his smile as his wife?

　　Z: Well, actually his smile sometimes was not smile but laughter. He laughed a lot. And I think both his laughter and smile were very symbolic<注9> of his character, and also become very symbolic of his diplomatic career, because he would be laughing a lot when he felt he had succeeded in something. You mentioned that photo, and I can tell you what the situation was like - one of the journalists asked him, "Mr. Qiao, how do you feel now that you are sitting on the seat of China?" Instead of making a statement, he laughed and laughed, and he said, "Now you know how I feel." That explained everything.

　　Y: We have been talking about the strong character of your late<注10> husband. Do you think a strong personality is something good in a career of politics, particularly in diplomacy?

　　Z: I'm afraid I wouldn't think so. Actually his character did bring him trouble.Y: It was said that Mr. Qiao liked drinking, such as the famous Chinese spirits<注11> "Maotai", is that true?

　　Z: He was certainly well-known for that. But let me tell you a secret, he didn't really have much of a capacity for drinks. But he loved drinking.

　　Y: And he loved poetry writing as well.

　　Z: Yes. He liked writing little poems in the rhyme<注12> of Tang Poem. When he got some wonderful idea, when he was excited about something, or when he had some strong feeling that he wanted to express, he would write poems.

　　Y: Qiao was not only popular with ordinary Chinese people, but also won the trust of both late Chairman Mao and Premier Zhou Enlai. What was special about him other than his erudition<注13> and personality?

　　Z: I think Chinese diplomats, particularly people like Lao Qiao, they have a very strong passion for their mission, for their country, their career and their vision. Maybe I can put it this way, it's the very strong sense of patriotism<注14> that encourages all this generation of China's diplomats, because that generation worked under such circumstances that China was very much cut off<注15> from the outside world. So they went into diplomacy, trying to get China back to the International arena. And they did so really with a very strong sense of responsibility and very strong passion for their own country.

　　Y: We know that your father Zhang Shizhao was an old friend of late Chairman Mao. Can you tell us something about that?

　　Z: Yes. He was friend of many famous people, like Sun Yat-sen and all the 1911 revolutionary leaders including Huang Xing and Cai E. He was also probably friend of Chiang Kai-shek. Chairman Mao respected him a lot as a friend. But it was my father's principle that he would go on his own way. He didn't seem to believe in joining political parties. He would rather remain independent in thinking.

　　Y: Can you tell us how your father became friends with Chairman Mao?Z: My father was actually friend of Mao's father-in-law, Mr. Yang Huaizhong - father of Yang Kaihui. It was probably as early as 1919 when Chairman Mao was introduced to my father by his father-in-law. This is how the whole thing started. And at that time, Mr. Yang asked my father to give his son-in-law a hand, because he really thought his son-in-law would be doing a great career. So my father promised his old friend, who unfortunately died very early. So this is why in 1921 when Chairman Mao and his friends were planning to go to Europe to continue education but were short of money, my father immediately promised to help them and raised fund for thissgroupsof young people. It came to 20,000 dollars, which was a lot of money at that time.

　　Y: Obviously, the Chinese Communist Party wanted very much to express their gratitude for your father's assistance.

　　Z: Right. Chairman Mao paid back by giving my father 20,000 yuan RMB, which was not equivalent<注16> to 20,000 dollars though. But then the Party leaders gave this nice house for my father to live in, which was part of the expression of their appreciation for my father's help.

　　Y: Did your father ever think of joining in the Communist Party?

　　Z: No, never. Although he had some very good friends in the first generation of the Communist leaders like Chen Duxiu and Li Dazhao - Li Dazhao was his great friend in particular.

　　Y: How come you didn't have a good relationship with your father during the Cultural Revolution?

　　Z: Not during the Cultural Revolution, it was earlier. During the Cultural Revolution, I improved my relationship with my father. But when I was a teenager, I wanted so much to join in the Communist League and later the Communist Party. But my father had some dispute with Lu Xun. Lu Xun's article appeared in the textbook of high school students. And when I read Lu Xun's article which severely criticized my father and I was sitting in the classroom, you could imagine how I felt. So I believed at that time that my father was a reactionary<注17>.

　　Y: What was the reaction from Chairman Mao and Premier Zhou to your feeling towards your father?

　　Z: Chairman Mao was the first one who taught me a lesson how to look at my father and other people in general. Once, I remember in 1962, the Chairman asked me very casually, "How do you look at your father?" Without a second thought, I said, "Well, we belong to two different classes - I am a Communist, and he represents the old exploiting class." He was the Minister of Education during the Duan Qirui government and that was why I said he was an old bureaucrat<注18>. After hearing what I said, Chairman Mao became very serious. He said, "You sound very serious. Between you and your father, there is a class line?" I said, "Yes." He asked, "Do you know your father's early history?" I said, "Not very much." Then he started to tell me all the story, about how he joined thesgroupsagainst Qing Dynasty, how he joined the 1911 Revolution to overthrow the Dynasty, how he was arrested. The Chairman told me that you cannot just look at a person from just one incident or one period of his life; you have to look at a person with regard to his whole life.

　　Y: Before your father died, did he know anything about your love relationship with Mr. Qiao Guanhua?

　　Z: Yes. We were about to get married.

　　Y: Did you have the blessings<注19> from your father?

　　Z: We went to the hospital - he was staying at the Beijing Hospital before he left for Hong Kong. When Qiao and I went to see him, he was very happy and he did give us the blessings. He said he didn't have any good gift but he would like to give me the only savings he had from his last work of Liu Wen Zhi Yao<注20>.

　　Y: Do you think you have lived up to your wedding vows?

　　Z: I think so.

　　Y: And you managed to survive the dark days when your husband was in very bad health.

　　Z: Right. That was a most difficult time.